Depth Matters

Welcome back to Aquatics Only, the podcast dedicated to all things aquatics! In our second episode, hosts David Stennett and Luke Daly dive deep into the expansive world of aquatics, exploring everything from the industry's definition to its most intriguing dynamics.

We kick off by clarifying what the aquatics industry truly encompasses, with the help of ChatGPT. David and Luke then take us on a journey through their experiences at the LIWA Conference in Perth, where they encountered some truly unique aquatic facilities, including a fascinating sideways pool at Armadale Fitness and Aquatic Centre.

The conversation takes a turn as they discuss the phenomenon of the "Aqua Ladies" – the often formidable regulars at aquatic centres who are known for their high standards and, sometimes, fierce feedback. This leads to an exploration of the importance of community in aquatics, highlighting the critical role of long-term staff and the vibrant engagement found at facilities across Perth.

Listeners are also treated to exclusive interviews with Olympic swimming legend Michael Klim and Fluidra Commercial's Jeremy Smith. Klim shares his insights on what makes a 50-metre pool "fast" and the impact of pool depth on performance, while Smith delves into the logistics and considerations of modular pools, especially in the context of major events like the Olympics.

The episode wraps up with a thought-provoking discussion on the future of aquatics facilities, particularly in light of the upcoming Brisbane 2032 Olympics, and the importance of engaging industry experts in the planning and design phases of these significant projects.

Thanks for listening to Aquatics Only. If you’re in swim schools, aquatic facilities, lifeguarding, learn-to-swim, programs, products, or anything water safety related, you’re in the right place.

Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode, and if this one was useful, share it with someone in the industry.

Want to get involved or have a guest/topic suggestion? Reach out: aquaticsonlypod@gmail.com

Transcript

This is aquatics only. 

Hey, y'all let's go. Welcome to aquatic. Only the podcast where we talk about everything aquatics and only aquatics. What are we going to do? We're going to look at some news. We're going to do some interviews, take a look at the events around the grounds, deep dive into some seriously interesting topics.

Take a look at what technology is out there. I'll be joined by Luke Daly real soon as well. Looking forward to seeing you on the other side. Ayo, let's go. 

Welcome back to another podcast. Our second podcast. My name's David Stannard. I'm joined by. Luke Daly over here, David AO. Let's go. We're back for a second episode already. I wasn't expecting quite the hubbub off the first X that's right. The first episode, David, I love a hubbub, a great flavor for me.

Thanks. We have more than a hundred likes in the first week on our LinkedIn page there. I'm glad people are tuning in. We're glad you're listening. It's nice. It's nice to be loved sometimes. And we welcome feedback too, though. It's not we do. Okay. We do. All right. Apparently we welcome feedback.

Tell us what you really think. Please. No, in,  in complete seriousness, what I, what a pleasure it is to be doing this podcast, the aquatics only. And I think that's where we need to start this podcast.  Luke, what is aquatics? How do we define it? There's a little bit of, I wouldn't say conflict or contention, conjecture, there might be a little bit of fog and gray area, a bit of tribalism.

So how are we going to define what is the aquatic space and what is aquatics only all about Mike? Like all good people these days, I found the source of AI, so I went straight to ChatGPT and plugged in No, the source of all objective truth. That's not true, but in this case, for this purpose, it is the objective truth.

So then we went straight to AI, straight to ChatGPT,  plugged in the question and asked it Sorry let's go to the question. The question was? Yeah, so it's important we share our data sources here as well. The question that we asked was? What is, sorry, forgive me, what does the aquatics industry encompass?

Ooh.  Okay. Broad search? Yes, broad. Definitely broad. And the answer that it came back with was that the aquatics industry encompasses a wide range of sectors related to water activities and facilities. This includes swimming pools, swim schools, water safety and lifeguarding services. Aquatic fitness and therapy, more on that later, competitive swimming, water sports, recreational water parks, and the manufacturing and maintenance of pool and spa products.

Not quite finished. Additionally, it covers aquatic facility management, training and certification programs for aquatic professionals, and the promotion of water safety and education initiatives. Effectively, it's an industry dedicated to all aspects of water related activities, services, and products.

Welcome to Aquatics Only. It is a broad church. There is a rich fabric of skill, of knowledge that builds out our entire scope of aquatics. We are thrilled that whatever you do, out there in the aquatics world that you're a part of this podcast, you're a part of the community helping project and to leave a legacy and build something great in the future. 

Correct. It's, it is Broadchurch, you're right, but I think it's important to scoop it in because we are all one big happy family. There are many jobs and many hands that make light work. You look like the weird uncle. I can be the weird uncle. That's okay. And this week, I think This will come out a week after we record this, David, but this week, we've had a great time exploring some of the tapestry of a lot of different facets of the definition there, Dave.

We have, and in a particular location, shall we reveal where we've been and what we've been up to. I think we should. We've been in Perth at the Lewar Aquatics Conference, David, this week. Yeah, it's been amazing to be in the West and, look, based in and around Perth, I know Western Australia, to all you West Australians, is much bigger than just Perth, but that's where we've been able to get to.

And it's been Really wonderful. Luke and I have both managed to get out to several facilities, aquatic facilities, and look at some of the all of those parts of the definition that make the whole that you've just been through. Thank you, Chad GPT. And see how they work here in the West. And there's been some really cool points of interest and difference maybe for us on the way the West does things, right? 

Yeah it's spun my head up a little bit. One thing in particular is like a glitch in the matrix was happening in my head, David over at the Armadale Fitness and Aquatic Center. Wasn't just you glitching out. That was me too. It was really hard to understand. And I know that this because subsequently we've had a lot of conversation with other operators and it's not necessarily the answer for all  applications, in all purposes, but.

A sideways pull. A sideways pull. Even just to look at it, we were going, hang on, how does that work? So for those who don't know, over here in the west, probably most people know about the the facility down there at The Armadale one? The Armadale one, that's right, the Armadale facility. For those that don't know, Luke, walk us through what a sideways pull is because we did glitch out.

Fully glitched out. My head, my eyes rolled back in the head and I didn't understand what was going on, but instead of Like most pools traditionally they go from shallow to deep lengthways I guess it's probably the easiest way to describe it you dive off the Blocks in the deep end and you swim to the shallow end and turn around and come back not on this pool No, and I think it was one of two Danny over there or Damon both a couple of legends.

Yeah, they're at Armadale Fitness and Aquatic Center  but this pool Goes shallow to deep left to so from lane one, it's might be shallow the  Walkers. To accommodate all the different types of activities that happen in the pool. Yeah, program. Yeah. And it just, it blew my mind to just think about it.

Now, it's not always the answer. In fact, we were having a conversation 24 hours later about the practicalities of some of those elements, but  for me, it was just, it's not confronting, it's too dramatic, but bewildering to go, wow, that's quite innovative. In a way. So simple. Never even thought of it. Aside from this pool.

No. But it works. And to, as we said, Dame and Danny, couple of legends out there, running a great community facility. Great community engagement out there. Absolutely incredible. Yep. Nearly a million visits last year through the facility. Oh yeah, they fell a little bit short, didn't they? Yeah, they were as disappointed as we were though.

Yeah, exactly. How incredible is that? 960, 000. And I think that's the biggest part that I've enjoyed on some of these tours here. In Perth and Surrounds is the level of community focus. Yeah, the people. Yeah, everyone coming in, lots of happy staff, lots of long long term employees serving the industry.

This is true.  But I think we do need to look, Luke, at a future podcast, an investigation, there's something that's come up everywhere we've gone. It's going to require an expose. It's going to require some deep dive investigative work, I think, to get to the bottom of the These facilities these aquatic facilities are all and it's it's East Coast as well.

It's not just the way this is a global This is a global phenomena and it is the high expectation the pressure the demands on staff management and even other patrons from The Aqua Ladies. Dun.  Yeah. Who are these Aqua Ladies? Oh, aka the Karen Club.  If your name is Karen, we salute you. Yeah.

We love you. The Aqua Ladies universally, and I'm talking globally, I've heard this presented a couple of times now, one of the National Sports Convention. Beware the Aqua Lady. That's right, the National Sports Convention in Melbourne and everywhere we've been and every conversation we've had, we go, Howie Aqua Ladies.

And everyone first laughs, and then realizes what they're laughing at, and freezes up in fear.  These Aqualadies rule the roost. And they're probably listening. Yeah, so we, if this is the last time you hear from us,  Send help. Yeah, send help. Because these Aqualadies, they rule the roost. If you have the temperature off by one degree, they know.

Oh, and they know the mayor. And they write letters to the mayor if you change the programming by 15 minutes. They will talk to their local member. But they all don't get along either, David, we've heard.  Hey, there's a couple of little tiffs. I think we need some Aqualady stories from industry. Please send them in.

These are terrific. We do need to hear more. But for the millennial listeners out there, of which I think there's a few, I've seen a lot of millennials around the place this week. Okay. Mean girls is a real thing and it's not just at college. It's not just at school. It's not just when you're young.

Mean girls as a theme and a type of person goes all the way through to the, sometimes on the late seventies. And beyond. These Aqualadies live forever because they've got great health and wellness and community connection. So some of the research shows that helps them live longer. So these Aqualadies are going to live forever.

This is the problem we're dealing with forever. Here you go. Now, speaking of facilities, we've talked about the 50 meter pool. So last podcast, we spoke about The controversy, the conspiracy around the 50 meter pool. We were lucky enough to get some time with Olympic champion, the man who would know, the man who has swum world records and Olympic golds in pools, and he would know what was going on.

We had a chance to talk with Michael Klim. The creator of straight arm freestyle, David. And 17 world records, I think he said, or even more. Oh, he digged it lots. Shout out to the Leeward team who got him on as a keynote, it was such a Wonderful presentation from him. Authentic, the journey he's been on, most of you would have seen the ads on TV about the plasma donors and the battle he's been in, he shared a bit of that.

It was very refreshing and authentic presentation. Really was. Encouraging and challenging all wrapped up in one. But Mike Klim the champion himself, he had something to say, so why don't we have a listen to what he says about the 50 metre pull and what a 50 metre pull should be. Ready to go?

Ready to go.  Here with Michael Clem. Tell us about what you thought of the Olympics, the slow pool in Paris. Just a very quick  thought process. Yeah, look, generally the pools that have been the fastest in the past were pools that are 3 metres deep. And we've seen that this one was 2. 1 metres. And you saw the paraphernalia at the bottom of the pool.

It's all really about reducing all the turbulence. One's to say the swimmers dive, return, that water bouncing back up at the swimmers. We're talking incremental kind of resistance and disturbance, but it does happen. Makes a difference. So bring back the deeper pools going forward, should there be a standard on a 50 metre Olympic pool.

I think so. I think, if we want to see this sport progress and let's keep it even. If they're temporary pool, why not build one that's three metres deep at least? Michael Klim, you're a busy man. Thank you for giving us some time today. My pleasure. Appreciate it. Thanks, mate. No worries.

Michael Klim, very much for your time and for your  thoughts there. There is some well planned. Maybe not conspiracy, but definitely there's  some thoughts around the way that the pulls can push back on that wave at the end, if you like, whether it's a wet deck or not.  Yeah, absolutely. And we hear from Jeremy Smith as well from the Woodrow commercial there.

He. explains a few of those things as well, Dave. Yeah, really good to get Jeremy Smith on the podcast as well. Here we are back on episode two of Aquatics Only. I'm here with Jeremy Smith, General Manager of Fluidric Commercial. Jeremy, thank you for joining us. My pleasure, Luke. I so you, we threw out the question on the last episode, Jeremy, around Olympic pool sizing and the controversial shallow pool.

And there's, we're post Olympics now and ahead of the Paralympics which I'm super excited for as well. So stay tuned for some interviews there, but what's your take on the Olympic pool?  Yeah, that's a good question. It was it was interesting when it popped up in the media. I think, um, we've been involved in design specification, even back from the feasibility stage on some pretty big projects when it comes to. 

modular pool technology and there's a few good players out in the market, quality modular pool providers. So the pool that was supplied within Paris was built to a slightly shallower depth than what some of the other key events have had. Typically it's usually around  2. 5 to three meters which is interesting because I think really what people are saying is that, the shallower depth creates.

a slower pool environment. It's very hard to prove that.  There's a huge amount of other factors involved, which I could probably speak to. What a couple of, what are a couple of those factors?  One thing is a simple thing is lane lines.  Whether or not you're using the type of product that quells the waves and the diameter of the discs,  the tension of the lane lines to create a smooth pool. 

One thing that I think hasn't been brought up and. A lot of swimmers can attest to this is with a modular pool, sometimes you do get an overflow of the water at each end that tips over a gutter or a wet deck, what a lot of people describe as a wet deck. And some swimmers say that with a solid end wall, you get a bit of a trampolining effect.

So when you swim into the end wall, if it doesn't go into a wet deck, but if it's up against a concrete or a solid end wall. When they go to turn off of that they get a bit of a I guess a bit of a wave coming back the other direction. So some people actually, some swimmers prefer a solid end ball to bounce off of.

And I think that's something that's a factor that probably could have played into The slower pool. So this one had a wet deck. Yeah, so modular pools typically are built with a wet deck and the end walls that are supplied have a grading that the water flows into that wet deck so you don't get that trampolining effect.

I suppose that makes a lot of sense. If we look at the 50 meter as the best example, the sprint. And yeah, what the splash and dash, I think it's also termed as, and they hit that wall with such force. And there's just a bow wave or this wake that almost pushes into the wall and drowns you. I've never been fast enough to experience it, but I suppose that makes sense.

And I didn't notice it as much this year as they hit the wall. So I reckon that's for sure going to make more of a difference in it. So there is no, is there is the question around a standard spec, like with the modular pools, like we've highlighted, they typically have that wet deck. Is that a relatively new technology for the Olympics side of things, having those modular pools, or have they been around for quite some time?

They've been around for quite some time. I know there are certain pools that throughout history have been considered fast pools. The Sydney Olympics was definitely one of those where they can, they thought it was one of the smoothest pools to swim in. They used really good technology with the lane lines, the discs that were designed to quell the waves.

It was I believe that was a concrete pool. Yep. But modular pools are, they're incredible technology. Something that  probably worth looking into how they're actually designed to accommodate the swimming and keep the waves as, as low as possible. Surrounded wet deck pools have been around for a long time.

So I think.  It's very hard to put your finger on exactly what were the factors for the slower pool. But are we happy to put to bed that it's not a conspiracy theory of the French against the Americans?  I don't think so. Hey, we're happy to put that one to bed here on the Aquatics Only podcast, are we? I think so.

Yeah. Okay. So it wasn't a conspiracy from the French against the Americans this time. No, maybe next time though. Hey, now we've heard currently as we record this, Jeremy, we in Perth at the Leewark. conference over here. And we heard from Michael Klim this morning. So of course, the Sydney Olympics, the memories came flooding back as we watched that this morning and the super suit era and obviously the fast and smooth pool as well.

So a phenomenal games for Aussies.  Phenomenal games for the products out there as well. Can you tell us a bit  as we delve into it? So it's not a conspiracy theory of the slow pool and it is a modular pool. You've been involved in a few of these. I think we were chatting offline about the VITCOM games plan that unfortunately isn't going ahead.

And you talked to earlier in this little interview here about the feasibility projecting out for Paris as well. What goes in to this? Where does it start? What's involved? And I suppose ultimately where we end up is we've got something that's, Is it permanent? Is it semi permanent? Is it, temporary?

What are we looking at? Yeah it's really interesting as we prepare for the Olympics in Brisbane there's this argument whether or not the pills that are built, should they be legacy pills? Do we need something that's a permanent structure that's going to remain for years and years?

Should they be modular pills that typically are a little bit cheaper? Definitely the construction timeline is compressed. It makes the project go along a lot faster and then the pill, pills can be repurposed or repositioned somewhere else or, for the case of the Commonwealth Games was specified for that project before it got cancelled unfortunately so our modular pill technology was involved in that and there are some good options with modular pills where fully recyclable material.

Like I said, they can be repurposed. So our suggestion for the comm games was that they were built, there were two 50 meter pools that were going to be built at Geelong. And then we suggested they be repurposed potentially like in a remote community or another place where they're required.

And the other option that was provided to them was that after the games, they would be returned to our factory, almost like a rental scheme. So that provided a really good cost saving. And what was. amusing is when all of these  Suppose cost blowouts happen.  We knew that we'd provided a really good package that was affordable and I remember one of the reporters coming out saying that  She said I don't know what these pills are made out of maybe solid gold So I actually reached out to her on linkedin and said I can actually tell you what they're made out of and it was a good price point Yeah, we've given them a really good option but so I think there's always this argument between whether or not something should remain after an event.

But the problem you have quite often is the operational costs to run a facility if there's already a number of facilities in place that are community hubs and that particular location doesn't need another competition pool. Thank you. It may be an expense for the community and the taxpayers. It's just not justified.

Yeah. It won't be the revenue generated within that community if it remains. But then there's also the trade off like in Brisbane for planning for 2032, we've obviously got a common games pool from the eighties,  but Chandler still a great pool, but you can't really present it on the world stage at an Olympics, 40, 50 in fact, years later.

I think it's,  Yeah. I don't think I'd like to be making some of those decisions at the moment, mate. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. My question, I guess next is in your experience as the aquatics industry, do you find that we've been consulted enough in these projects? Are we brought in from the start and we've got a voice or take the Vic com games is canceled now.

Like in your experience there, has it been enough direct consulting, whether it's for the specific event at hand, or even as you were alluding to there. I suppose the subsequent use, whether they can be moved, whether they are based off a rental or whether they are a permanent structure do you find that we are consulted enough in that space or where does it live? 

Yeah, I think the more people you can get involved in early stage feasibility, the better.  The problem is at times it can slow down the process and too many cooks spoil the broth on occasions. Yeah. But I think.  Particularly if you're going to be repurposing it in the future or using it in the future, you need to engage with people that are operationally intelligent.

I guess they know what the requirements of the facilities will be for years to come and how it should be designed so that you can get best use out of it after the event. Yeah, definitely on the feasibility side I think we could do it a lot better. Yep. Quite often it'll be one feasibility company with a few key stakeholders within the government side of things.

But I love working with, when we're working on a project, it doesn't have to be for an event, but engaging with, lessees, operators feasibility consultants, hydraulic engineers, as many people as possible because they all come from a different perspective. They all have a different way of looking at the project.

And In the end, you can fine tune that through the course of the project, but you should start with as many voices at the start as you possibly can to allow the key decision makers to, see all sides of the coin, yep, I think that's super helpful too, and I agree. My last question before we go, and this is on the spot, you don't know this one's coming.

In fact, you haven't known any of these are coming. But we look forward to 2032, and I suppose more. The Olympics is still a topic right now. Olympics leading to the Paralympics leading into the Brisbane 2032. What's on the horizon from an innovation sense that you think we could see or potentially see?

If we talk old school previous Olympic games like the Sydney games, where that was that solid wall and that was a fast pool with the super suits. We talk about these modular pools having those wet deck areas at the end that absorb some of that pressure coming in and don't necessarily give that kickoff as we bounce back.

We've development in, in lane rope technology as well. We can Duncan Armstrong from his racing and you can see the wash that's going over the lane ropes or the strategy that they were talking about heading down one lane or they can see that kind of thing. Lane ropes have come so far and I think there's probably a little bit of a nerd out topic we may not do on this podcast might be a bit too in depth, but what's something that you see on the horizon from an innovation or a tech or a anything sense as we head into 2032? 

Yeah, I think there'll probably be some adjustments to the way  one of the products that we manufacture are starting blocks. A few years ago there was a redesign to the starting blocks to accommodate a track start similar to what a sprinter would use in 100 meter sprint. And it would be, that's changed over the years to be become an adjustable track start.

For me, starting block technology is something that probably can still be pushed forward a little bit further without it becoming an unfair tool to get greater performance.  When it comes to the pool itself, there's very  strict measures around how the equipment interacts with the swimmers, and obviously you don't want to provide an unfair advantage.

But it's very different, I think, in the aquatic space.  Years ago, I got into golf and I can't imagine like the amount of changes in the last 20 years we've seen with equipment on golf clubs, that pros use, and now they're having to build golf courses longer and longer because they can drive the ball so much better with ball technology and club technology.

It's not something I can really see will happen in the aquatic space. I think there needs to be some consistency with the type of equipment used.  And I like the fact that, when you compare a record to today and a record from, say, 10 years ago, it's purely skill. It almost is 100 percent skill and training and technique.

Potentially, maybe the biggest advancements will be in the training and the preparation for these games physically. Yeah, and I agree with that. And I think that's one of my favorite parts around the swimming in particular as a sport. There's  We can withdraw so many of those variables if we look at breakdancing not that we should talk about that too much because we might giggle, but swimming is so objective is how I see it.

You've got to be the best on the day and if we can remove some of those variables and it's just down to raw skill, raw athleticism and raw talent, that's that's an awesome thing I think. So Jeremy, thank you for joining us on the Aquatics Only podcast. Yep. Thank you for tuning in. Make sure you hit that and subscribe.

Listeners out there, we thank you for your support. And Jeremy, we will see you next time. Great. Thanks for having me, mate. See you, Jeremy. See ya, bye. 

Great discussion there with him. Jeez, you guys can nerd out on some things. We were only just getting warmed up. We didn't even get stuck into the whole lane rope thing. I am excited to hear more about the starting blocks though.  The innovation coming through into 2032, but there's so much that we do as an industry that we've highlighted what we consider the industry here on this podcast at the top here.

Yeah. Ahead of the 2032 or ahead of our normal projects that happen every day of the week around here, there is significant investment. And I think in future podcasts they will talk about. The need for more investment but that's not for today's topic. And with that, I think this is a wrap. Thank you again for taking the time to join us on Aquatics Only.

We look forward to seeing you out and about until next time. Ayo, let's go.