Swimming Story time with Sarah

In this episode of Aquatics Only, host Luke Daly speaks with Sarah Morgan from Bespoken Agency about her journey from journalism to marketing, the importance of swimming as a life skill, and the need for better storytelling in the aquatic industry. They discuss the alarming statistics regarding swimming skills among children in Australia and the role of media in shaping public perception. Sarah emphasises the importance of telling positive stories and engaging effectively with media to promote the good work being done in the industry.

Transcript

Luke Daly (00:00)
Well, I am hijacking this podcast today. Welcome back to Aquatics Only. There is no David, there is Luke and a special guest. My special guest today is a new friend of mine who I've spent a lot of time getting to know who's deeply passionate about doing good things in the marketplace and helping businesses promote them. That's why on the podcast today, we have Sarah Morgan from Bespoken Agency. Welcome along, Sarah.

Sarah Morgan (00:23)
Thanks Luke, thanks for having me. I feel so privileged to be on such a wonderful platform.

Luke Daly (00:28)
Well, it's a massive platform. As you know, some people have compared us to the size of Joe Rogan or, Brené Brown, you know, even Hillary Clinton. Like we've got the same size forum. So you're in, you're in a big forum here.

Sarah Morgan (00:39)
I think they aspire. I think they aspire to get to this level that you have achieved.

Luke Daly (00:44)
I couldn't have put it better myself. So, I like to do introductions, but I don't like to do them. So I would love for you to tell us about you and I suppose why you might be on the podcast today.

Sarah Morgan (00:55)
Yeah, thanks. Look, my favourite subject, no, I'm joking. My background is a recovering journalist or a journalist for my sins, as I like to say, come from a long line of journalists. My uncle was the editor of the state based newspaper up here in Queensland, and he was absolutely appalled that I wanted to become a journalist. Yeah, so look, I studied a double degree at uni many, many years ago in journalism and comms.

and always thought I was going to be a media advisor in politics. I love politics, always had real aspirations, did an internship with a political advisor and realized I hated it, wasn't going to happen. And yeah, worked in print in Australia and England and then moved over to corporate comms and did a number of really big jobs within corporate roles like lend lease and different things.

And nine years ago, I started Bespoken when my daughter was four months old. And it's an agency, as you said, Bespoken agency, looks after marketing, community, communications and engagement. And I've become that bigger house of recovery and has for journalists. And we work really closely with businesses, organizations, any kind of group that has a message that needs to get out there and needs to get out in front of the right eyeballs or in front of the right ears.

And we just love really amplifying people's story and promoting good stories.

Luke Daly (02:09)
Well, think we have a number of those within our industry and I think we had a rocky start when we first met. I profess to you that I have a disdain for journalists and that remains true. I do seem to have an affection though for recovering journalists, let's call them because I think that was one of the cool spots that we started to hit off. I heard you speak, at a different association gig and I was very impressed. Hell, even enjoyed it. that's, that shouldn't be so surprising to me, but it was.

because when it said journalist on there, I was like, I'll go listen. What can she tell me? But you told me a lot, you taught me a lot and we've, I suppose spoken a few times since then. You've had me as a guest to a few of your events and I'm very grateful for that. So tell me a little bit though, because there was a number of things that we talked about when we first caught up for coffee around swimming. What's your relationship to swimming and aquatics, I guess, given the tone of conversation here.

Sarah Morgan (03:00)
Yeah, it's interesting. I never really considered my relationship with aquatics until meeting. Similar vein to you. I grew up in regional Queensland, always took for granted a backyard pool. It wasn't actually until I moved and did the typical Aussie thing, got my cadetship at a paper and moved to England. And I remember my first gig at a regional newspaper being quite shocked at how many of my colleagues couldn't swim.

And I realised how privileged I had been growing up in Queensland. And my family are all surfers, you know, we live in the water. So even though I grew up in regional Toowoomba, I was regularly swimming, was in swim squad. Really, I've always enjoyed it. Swimming for me or doing laps is quite meditative. My probably the only other side to it too is unfortunately as a journalist,

I have covered way too many backyard pool drownings. actually probably, there's three cases that have stayed with me. And to the point when my daughter was born, the same day she was born, the local paper had a front cover story of two daughters in Logan, which is close to us in Brisbane here, drowning in their backyard. And it always has stayed with me how many times these senseless drownings have happened due to a number of reasons.

But it's one of the reasons that my daughter, the moment she was able to start swimming lesson at four months, it's been a non-negotiable. She is irregular in swimming class. And it's a really important thing for me to the point that when my daughter who's very active, she's got my energy and hyperactiveness, she wants to do every sport under the sun. For me, learning to swim classes is non-negotiable. That is something that she has to do. So I suppose...

in a long-winded way for me it's a it's a really I took it for granted a lot until I realized that there's people in the world who have never learned to swim and don't get that enjoyment of having swimming but on the other side I've been the journalist who's rocked up to an unfortunate drowning and it really stays with you like it really stays with you how senseless it can be a lot of times and how vaudeville it could be

And then on the other side, as a parent who's paid the fees and absolutely happy to pay those fees for learn to swim schools by professionals. even to the point I volunteer at my daughter, you know, school carnival last year, don't think they want me back because I was that person cheering so loudly that I over, no one could hear actually the judging of who came first because I just was incredibly passionate.

Luke Daly (05:26)
And I think that's really important. I think you've surmised the really good and positive points of what our swim schools and our aquatic facilities bring to society and that fabric of society around whether it's a meditative lap swimming as an adult who can be hyperactive following that little black line, a little blue line, just that space that you get in your head. But the freedom that it brings from a young person's perspective or the safety that it brings as a life skill. And I think you hit the nail on the head where as a parent and

With respect, you are an outsider to this industry. So it's really good to hear your voice on this podcast to go. You're not one of us in that respect. You don't live and breathe this every day. It's not a job to you but you go, Hey, this is a non-negotiable. And I remember you sharing with me too, that story when you moved to England and how you were shocked, the culture shock, even though it's in some ways a similar system over there, but it just wasn't a thing. And we dialogue a fair bit on that going Australia is just a swimming culture.

But the trigger point for this conversation, apart from you and I fostering a friendship over the last several months, was around the report that came out last week around the 49 % or nearly half of kids who are in grade six, not being able to swim 50 meters. And I had a message from one of your other team members, actually, I don't know if you knew that. But Michaela messaged me as well going, Hey, this is, this is really scary. And I think you were fairly shocked by it, right?

Sarah Morgan (06:46)
I was appalled by it. I think it's a fundamental error that has happened. Same thing as you're saying, I remember when I worked in England, everyone just assumed that I could swim and that everyone Australia was a wannabe Olympic swimmer because they just assumed that's what we're ingrained to do. And to your report, it was appalling. Like for me, learning to swim,

is a fundamental and vital skill set that anyone in Australia, whether a child or an adult, should have. We're surrounded by water. And I can tell you now, as a journalist, when you cover a backyard swimming or any drowning that's caused because there was that skill set missing, it really breaks your heart because no one should be in that position. And to think that...

learning to swim is becoming more of a desirable rather than manitory. That really alarms me and I think, I mean you've got the gift of storytelling. We've always talked about that. You know, you know how to get people's attention but there's a line you put in your post when you highlighted it around the value and the cultural relevance of a school carnival, swimming carnival. I remember all the swimming carnivals and I didn't win that often. I just got enthusiasm awards but

Luke Daly (07:59)
Sounds like you could still get them, judging by last year at their daughter's carnival.

Sarah Morgan (08:00)
Yeah,

I got the participation awards. for me, it's part of your fabric of growing up as an Australian kid. And it shouldn't be something that some have and some don't. And I really worry about the divide between the have not and the haves. And this is a fundamental part of it that worries me.

Luke Daly (08:21)
And I think it is a big concern and I don't like just talking about the concern. So you and I don't always spend our time talking about the, I suppose, the problem. One of the reasons I really value you as a recovering journalist, some of the campaigns you've run for a lot of other associations and organizations. The main one that stuck with me when I heard you share about it was the, give a fork campaign. Forgive me if I get the terminology wrong. That's how I remember it. We give a fork and you running that campaign and that promotion.

Sarah Morgan (08:43)
We give a fork. Yes.

Luke Daly (08:48)
really stuck with me about storytelling as our industry. I've shared with you over the last few months, a bunch of different cases as well. So if we move from the tragedy of Learn to Swim, and we'll lace it all together in a little while. But I've sent you a few videos or posts about some really negative things that actually make the press, whether it's pools going over budget and having an impact on the rate payer, whether it's the case incidents down in Victoria that I've shared with you as well.

whether there's different management companies and that kind of thing, or even, some regional pools that I send you even just as late as last week. I suppose what's your take on it? My concern is that our industry brings so much good to the community. And I would hazard a guess if it's not, it's at least 95 % good, if not more. Yet there seems to be no noise about it. And yet the 5 % of crap that happens and crap happens always. why?

What do we need to do better? What can we do better? How can you help us?

Sarah Morgan (09:40)
Yeah, it's a really good question. like the way you frame it. I always say to people, and I think you and I had this chat, you were quite skeptical, it's probably the nice PR version we'll say around media and journalism that we met. I fundamentally believe that media and good journalism has a real important role to play in our community. I think it comes down to that if you strip it back, you look at it as a relationship.

If you're constantly going to media with your hand out and asking, why aren't you doing this for me? Why aren't you running these stories? Why aren't you doing this? You need to step back and look at it as a professional relationship. And to do that, you have to understand what is driving our newsrooms today. When I was a journalist, and this is way a while ago, I had the privilege of maybe writing two or three stories a day. I had to the police, you know, the police scanner would be going off the background. If something dropped, you had to run and drop that.

But I had a really good team around me, a chief of staff, sub editors. I had experienced people around me that I could go and ask questions or get advice and say, Luke, the CEO is not returning my call. He's dodging me. What would you do? And they'd give me advice. Go to the industry body, go over his head or threaten him with no comment, you know, and really align that. So I always had good advice. I had a photographer that I'd work with and the photographer was always experienced and your photographer was some of your best relationships.

because they would advise, you if you're on a, if you're waiting for police to bring out a crim, you know, or you're at a stakeout or something like that, your photography and you would engage. Now, the reason I'm going to the good old days is perspective. Now you've got newsrooms where they don't have photographers on staff. They have to call in freelancers that a lot of them

are very young in their career and they're not getting that support with seniors around them who can give the advice or having a sub editor to check their work. But on top of that, you also have journalists are now driven by stats, traffic, subscription, KPIs. Not only are you writing your stories each day, but you also have to file for social media. You have to have brand. You have to be constantly looking for what's getting attention and sitting on Facebook groups and finding what's that pub test. So the pressure put on today's newsrooms.

I think everyone needs to take a step back and really look at that to be able to actually understand this relationship with media. The big thing I say to a lot of organizations and associations we're really proud to work with is, Geno's don't work for you. They don't work for you. Buy an ad. If you want them to run your story, work out what is actually going to be what they want. Find out what actually drives the news and have that understanding of that.

The other side to it, why you're seeing more negative stories than you're seeing positive. And I'm to challenge your sector and I love your sector. I've come to really appreciate it. I never really understood the sector because I was always a customer of it or someone on the peripheral quite reporting it. But since the involvement with you and meeting some of your incredible members, I've really come to realize how much of a fundamental role it plays in our society. But I would say one of the things, and I hope this comes across the right way, is you guys don't

show and tell the great stories that you guys have. I've worked with some of your members who are some of the most beautiful success business stories, family owned businesses who are killing it, doing incredible leading innovation, finding new technology to really make the industry more sustainable in the future. They're not only looking at the next Olympian, they just fundamentally want to ensure everyone can learn to swim. There's some incredible stories within your ecosystem.

But unfortunately, no one's telling them. So what's happening is your sector is letting other people tell their story. And what's happening is these negative stories are coming out because these people, if you look at all the negative stories that you've mentioned or other ones, at least in the last six months, the common thread is someone and external stakeholder has dropped that with a journal. And they've dropped it with a journal who knows that this will get people talking.

And journalists look at what is gonna pass that pub test, what is gonna make people talk, because that drives traffic. So I think it's a little bit pushback on you, is your sector need to be better at telling the really good stories that you guys have. And you guys have a lot of good stories, but you're letting other people tell your narrative. And unfortunately, it's a negative narrative.

Luke Daly (13:54)
Yeah. I think you're spot on over. really think it is a weak point that we do need to work on and get out there in the marketplace a lot more. And I like you almost, yes, you've thrown it back on me on that. And I don't, I don't mind a challenge. So let's, let's take that and run with it. But I also liked what you said before you encouraged us as an industry to understand the, the landscape of journalism and media rooms. And you're so right. mean, even when Dave and I, as part of this podcast, doing the sip and swim tests around all the Brisbane council pools.

We ran into a nine news reporter and yes, their microphones were better and their cameras were better and probably Claire Todd Hunter as the as the news reader was probably better than Dave and myself, but arguable at that level. And I remember we probably did a minute's worth of piece to camera for her. And yet she was spending the whole day for a two and a half minute segment on the news that night. And I think I got three words in.

Like we're going to six pools today is all that was kind of broadcast on the news, even though we outline a number of things. So and that's, suppose, the their side to the news side going up. They they were her and her cameraman went to I think they went to seven different places. RSPCA, aged care homes, pools, because it was all around a heat wave. And that's all that pulled through to the news that night. It was it was pretty it was eye opening for me. And that's even having gotten to know you a little bit.

And I think knowing that, yeah, your photographer should be your best friend and pushing that content to the newsrooms to make it easy, given the strict resourcing or the limited resourcing that they have these days and the volume to try and get something that sticks is pretty mental.

Sarah Morgan (15:26)
Yeah, and I think it's having that understanding. I know, I always say, I did media training yesterday with an incredible new CEO of a large organization. And he had a, a respectfully similar environment, a similar thought pattern as you as why do I need to deal with journals? Why do I need to deal with media? And I love the question because it's well,

In my world, there's two things is owned and earned media. Own is where you own the platform. Like you own this podcast, you can control what guests you have on it, how you portray it, how you promote it. I earn the right to be on your podcast. But if in traditional media that lives in earned and if you just stick to owned media, you start to run the risk and don't get me wrong, you need owned media. I believe it's a beautiful marriage between the two. Owned media is consistent and earned is where you spike it up and you play a bit of

keep you up here for the ones who've got bluey or it's the milestone where you need to prop it up a little bit more. Yeah. it is owned as that consistent. If you just do owned media though, you start to run the risk of sitting there and talking to your own silo. And that's where I think as a sector, we're running that risk. And I'm going to say Royal We are running that risk, but I worry that we're just continuing to talk to the converted. We're talking to the people already appreciate the sector and what

Luke Daly (16:16)
Love it.

Sarah Morgan (16:41)
what we again, the Royal We do. Earned media means that you can get into a more mass distribution and you can get into other eyeballs or ear drums. Sorry, I always talk eyeballs and ears. You can get in front of people that you need to expand that reach. And if you want to get change in government, media is the neck that turns the gov's head. Ministerial advisors and media advisors and pollies watch what's going on in the news.

because it's their sentiment test. So back to your point though, it's a relationship build. That lady who covered you from Channel 9, as I said to the media training yesterday, you gotta remember most news broadcasts maximum are a minute and 30. So you got 20 seconds with the presenter doing an introduction. So welcoming the story. Then you've got what we call B-roll, which is the background. You will all have seen any TV news. It would be the naughty where people walking down a corridor, talking to each other, nodding. It's B-roll. Then you've got...

voice interviews camera. On average, most audio grabs are no more than seven seconds. So if you're interviewed, you'll get around a seven second grab. At a push, if you are really good talent, you'll get maybe two of those seven second grabs. So you gotta remember, and then we'll interview other people to your point. So you've gotta really understand and take a step back. If you wanna work in...

and in earned media and get attention in earned media for proactive or positive press. You have to have an understanding of what's going to actually make the news. And I can tell you what's going to make the news. Why negative makes the news is because it's alarming and it gets clicks. For want of a word, it's the click bait. It makes people annoyed. So they're the ones the keyboard worries who comment. But there is other ways to get positive media. Look at behavior trends. Look at what is different. Be that observer of new thoughts or processes.

If you've seen like there was a really good example where Coles identified that people who are neurodivergent were struggling to do shopping. They then at four or think it's three o'clock or four o'clock each afternoon, they put quiet time, no music and they got national, international press for it. All they did was turn the music off at three o'clock, but they identified a trend and a need and a behavior and they turned it into a good story to PR.

shopping at their supermarkets. So it's finding what is that behavior trend, challenging the status quo, or just finding those good community feel good stories. Journos love those stories, and just identifying what they want and having that respectful relationship to them. But I'm just going to say one thing to continue. And I promise I'll hand it back to you is you can't be on media if you don't respect the platform. And secondly,

Luke Daly (18:54)
And this.

Sarah Morgan (19:19)
to avoid earned media means that you're just going to continue talking to the same people. Not doing earned media I think is a real risk.

Luke Daly (19:26)
Yeah. And so I think I'll take my slap on the wrist. And even before you scolded me for having a disdain for journal, I was going to say I'm reformed. It's okay. I have a new, newfound appreciation for journals. Thanks to you. So I have changed and I've reformed my view on that. Not completely, but we'll get there. I, and I believe one story at a time can also change that focus on the negative and lead to positive. You shared a statistic with me, which will probably share it at a future, engagement, if that's okay, just around.

the changing appetite from different consumers of news around where we're sick of hearing the bad stuff. So let's give them the really good new stuff. Hearing you talk about that story around Coles going to the neurodivergent down to the hour that they can shop where the music's off. The crazy part, do you want to know, is our industry does a lot of that kind of innovation. I've been to pools where that happens. I have a program pool that is just quiet for an hour and that attracts a lot of people.

Sarah Morgan (20:24)
why

are we telling people about it? Look it's such a great story and so easy and what I love is your sector did it for the right reasons. You did it for genuine engagement with your stakeholders. You didn't do it for PR and I love that but on the other side is do it for the right reasons and then when it's set up then get the extra bonus of the promotion for it.

Luke Daly (20:24)
This 100 %

Yeah. So Sarah, we're going to hear from you a few times across this year, hopefully in different worlds within the aquatic and swim school space. I believe you'll be speaking at a conference coming up in August, the Spark Conference, which is super exciting. And then we'll also endeavour to do a webinar in the lead up to that to unpack a little bit more of this conversation on a few different strategies. Can you give me three quick ways as we kind of draw this podcast to a close, give me three quick ways that Bespoken can help.

some of our listeners, if our listeners want to engage you and Bespoken to assist with them, what are three kind of ways? I could probably name them, but I'll let you do your sales pitch.

Sarah Morgan (21:20)
Thank you. Yes, three ways I think we can be of value. One is helping you, the way we position ourselves as an extension of a newsroom. We come into organizations or body, industry bodies and say, this would make news, this wouldn't, this is a story, this is an ad. So we're very good at being your journey for hire. So an extension of a newsroom, if you want to play in earned media and start showcasing the great, positive stories, and you do have so many of them.

then that we can come in and be that genuine journo for hire and go, that's a story, that's a not. Look, I'll be upfront. There is still a moment where you might have negative press, crisis comms. We do focus on that. We do specialise in crisis comms. Proactive is what we love because it is really engaging and good news stories. But unfortunately, sometimes things do happen in an organisation.

things that, yeah, maybe staff members done the wrong thing or there's external influences. We are human. So we are actively engaged in doing crisis comms, but we look at crisis comms with your brand in the future. So what is it that we can do to protect that brand going further? I think the third one is around education pieces. We do some really good programs. Like you mentioned the week before, that was a really great program our marketing and comms team did for Queensland Fruit and Veggie Growers.

And it not only got media, but it actually raised the awareness of what our growers are going through in Queensland. And it was a real combination of media and education and awareness. And it was a really great program we're really proud of. So they're my three key takeaways. And I can't wait to continue talking about it in August. It looks like a fabulous conference.

Luke Daly (22:57)
It's going to be very cool indeed. Now, Sarah, as we sign off from this podcast, usually we have a little tagline that Dave and I do. One of us says, Ayo and the other one says, let's go. So I'm going to do the Ayo this time and you can do the let's go. Does that sound cool?

Sarah Morgan (23:12)
Cool, how much enthusiasm do you want from this? Is it something like...

Luke Daly (23:16)
I swimming carnival level that would get you band enthusiasm. But before we do that, as we sign up, how do our listeners get in touch with you?

Sarah Morgan (23:19)
gone.

Sarah Morgan on LinkedIn. I'm very active on there. I like to see the analysis or bespokenagency.com.au. All our contacts are there. And if you're a member of Luke's Association, I really, really want to hear from you. We love the sector and think there's a lot of work that can be done to elevate the good work that you guys are doing.

Luke Daly (23:43)
Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for this, Sarah. This has been a wonderful episode and a wonderful discussion. It's great to hear an outsider's perspective from the industry, but also a professional's experience in how we can tell our story a little bit better. It's nice to be challenged. It's nice to hear a few talking points as well. So as we round out Sarah, you have a great week and AO.

Sarah Morgan (24:03)
Let's go!

Luke Daly (24:04)
That is better. That'll be the sample from now on. So thank you so much and we'll see you next time guys.

Sarah Morgan (24:10)
Thank you.